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The Bull Smoke e Cig Q & A

Bull Smoke E Cig Q & A

When the Bull Smoke review was handed off to me in the 3rd week of July I began investigating the product and comparing it to other products in the same category. What I discovered was disturbing. KR808 batteries available from other eCig companies for half the cost that Bull Smoke charges, starter kits of comparable components that were selling for $20 less, and so forth.

Example: Halo Cigs sells the same KR808 batteries, although they are different colors, thickness, length, etc. Halo sells their batteries for $14.95 while Bull Smoke sells theirs for $24.95, or 5 for $99.95. The Halo Cigs starter kit, a better kit but comparable in the number of components (with more choices as well) sells their Starter Kit for $54.95 and Bull Smoke sells theirs for $74.95, a full $20 more.

In addition, Halo Cigs sells their prefilled cartomizers with their own, American made eLiquid, not a generic Chinese eLiquid. Lastly, Halo Cigs includes 2 BLANK cartomizers so that their customers can fill them with any eLiquid they choose.

When I went through the Bull Smoke website I discovered many inconsistences, including some wild claims that just couldn’t be true. Rather than print something without getting the other side’s input I put together a series of questions to present to Martin Giles, owner of Bull Smoke. Below are the questions and answers that he provided.

Spinfuel (Julia): As you probably already know, Spinfuel eCigs Magazine takes their reviews very seriously. Our reviews are in-depth, honest, and straightforward. It is for that reason that I must ask you a few questions about your product and statements made on your website. I ask only for clarification purposes because I intend to mention these areas in the review.  The last thing I would want to do is put anyone on the spot, so I assure you these questions are only asked to allow me to delve deeper into those areas that really define a product.

Bull Smoke (Martin):  Happy to help!

Spinfuel (Julia): Please do not take offense for any of the questions below. I am simply looking for information to back up what I write about. We do not write fluff pieces or reiterate material found in press releases, we create our content by asking questions, living with the product, and “kicking the tires” in every way possible. I realize this is your first review with us, sometimes a company that first works with us takes offense at what appears to be digging for dirt, and I assure you this is not the case. When the review is published most companies understand exactly why we asked the questions we asked.

Bull Smoke (Martin): No offense taken – I appreciate the due diligence.

(Clearly, based on the Bull Smoke Attack Force, they took offense – Julia)

Spinfuel (Julia): On your website you state the following:

Bull Smoke is the originator of the unique 2-piece design electronic cigarette that provides smokers with an exciting new alternative.

Your site also indicates that:

Bull Smoke engineers are widely credited within the industry for the invention of the revolutionary 2-piece electronic cigarette design.”

 

Are you, Bull Smoke, indeed the “originator” of the 2-piece eCigarette, comprising the battery and cartomizer? How did this come about? Does your company hold any patents with respect to the 2-piece design?

Bull Smoke (Martin): The manufacturing plant we use in China was the originator of the two-piece design.  Many brands, ours included, launched this 2 piece design at the manufacturing level, around the same time.  While it’s debatable which brand introduced it to the market first, we were clearly at the forefront and subsequently, many other manufacturing plants followed suit.  It’s one of those things where nobody argues with it, because there is no line in the sand saying “well, company x sent an email saying it was coming soon, while company y had it on their website first, meanwhile company z was the first to place an order for it from the plant.”  Follow?

(It was at this point that I began to worry somewhat about what Bull Smoke has been claiming about their product. On the site, and to the public, they claimed that they were the originator of the 2-piece design, then Martin admits that Bull Smoke DIDN’T invent it, the FACTORY where he buys his product was the “originator”. Where I come from claiming the work of someone else as your own is frowned upon. – Julia)

Spinfuel (Julia): Your choice in using the KR808 battery and cartomizer is, in my opinion, an excellent choice. Battery life, voltage, etc., of the KR808 has always worked out better for myself than using the 510. What was your reason for using the KR808 design over the more common 510?

Bull Smoke (Martin): Testing, testing, and more testing.  I can’t tell you how many people were involved, because it was well over 100.

(I was going to ask Martin is those “100” people involved were actually Bull Smoke employees, then I decided against it. Clearly, the 100 people he speaks about are the people at the Chinese owned factory. – Julia)

 

Spinfuel (Julia): Is your eLiquid manufactured in China or the US? Like 99.99% of all other brands, we’re pretty confident that your eJuice is injected into cartomizers in China, so we are asking if the juice itself is manufactured in China. Do you own the company that mixes the juice or was the company hired to create the juice line for you?

Bull Smoke (Martin): China.  Even the brands that “make” their e-juice in the USA ship them to China to get filled, so it’s a real fine line saying it’s a USA-made product.  We do not own the company that mixes the juice, it’s contract manufacturing like 99.9% of our competition. In fact I don’t know one company who owns foreign manufacturing plants outright. I’ve heard of some investing in the facilities and leasing staff, but outright ownership by an e-cigarette brand does not exist to my knowledge.

Spinfuel (Julia): Are your eLiquid “flavors” exclusive to Bull Smoke? In other words, were they blended specifically for Bull Smoke, under Bull Smoke’s direction? If the flavors are specific to Bull Smoke, how long, approximately, did it take to formulate your flavors?

Bull Smoke (Martin): We made some slight variations to most of the generic flavors offered by the E-juice companies, so I guess technically we have about 80% exclusive flavors.  Our grape flavor we share with only one other brand, and it’s made somewhere very unique – off the beaten path – and since it’s been highly successful we may move manufacturing of other flavors to this lab in the future.  Time will tell, but we’re very happy with where we’ve come as far as flavors and making sure everyone is satisfied.

(So, not only does Bull Smoke NOT create their own eLiquid, it’s mostly “off the shelf” Chinese juice. – Julia)

Spinfuel (Julia): Your website displays a banner that reads, American Engineered. Which parts of Bull Smoke are American engineered and what do you mean by American engineered?

Bull Smoke (Martin): The battery was engineered in America.  This is the same process Apple uses when it manufactures.  If you own an iPhone, flip it over – it reads the same way.  In simple terms, the design, technical functionality, and direction is all done here in the USA by minds living here, and the specs are sent to China to develop a final product based on those specs.  Does that make sense?  If not, please let me know and I’ll clarify further.

I see, the Bull Smoke product, it’s KR808 series batteries, it’s cartomizers, and the generic Chinese made eLiquid is the same as Apple spending millions of dollars on R&D and building prototypes of their products, and then shipping out those plans, to companies in China to have them made. Is that it? I don’t think so.

 

Spinfuel (Julia): On the FAQ page Bull Smoke states:

Bull Smoke uses the industry’s most powerful 4.2v long life lithium battery, which is actually the top of the electronic cigarette.

However, on the page Vapor Technology, Bull Smoke states:

The Bull Smoke battery is comprised of a 3.7-volt ion lithium pack inside each cylinder that keeps the cigarette always charged and ready for optimal use.

I will be touching on the voltage of the battery, could you please explain why there are 2 different voltage claims?

Bull Smoke (Martin): This was a mistake – it’s since been fixed.  We upgraded batteries a few months ago and everything is 4.2 volts.  In the past, we used the weaker 3.7-volt battery.

Spinfuel (Julia): Bull Smoke claims that its batteries have the shortest charging times in the industry. How long does it take, on average, to recharge a Bull Smoke battery? Do you know what the “average” recharge time is for the majority of eCigarette batteries of similar voltage?

Bull Smoke (Martin): We recommend charging for 2 hours minimum.  We’ve seen competition post 3-5 hours, and we invite you to compare charging times to see for yourself. :)

Spinfuel (Julia): Bull Smoke indicates that there are 10,000 chemicals in tobacco or tobacco smoke. I have always used the number “4000”. I would be very interested in seeing where you got that figure from as I would like to use it not only in this review, but in any future reviews or opinion pieces where the number of chemicals in tobacco would be stated.

Bull Smoke (Martin): I’d have to check with the research staff we hired to find that material, but a quick Google search shows that we’re far from alone in this claim, so it was made somewhere and it looks like many other sites are claiming the same.  I’d like to know the “real” answer but it looks like both 4,000 and 10,000 are widely used.  See below.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=how+many+carcinogens+are+in+cigarettes&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8#hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=10%2C000+chemicals+in+cigarettes&oq=10%2C000+chemicals+in+cigarettes&gs_l=serp.3…21362.27051.0.27197.38.34.2.0.0.0.169.3211.20j14.34.0…2.0…1c.0dqiK_gA0h0&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=1c4047a866e1e974&biw=1024&bih=874

Spinfuel (Julia): Which Starter Kit, the Ranch Hand or City Slicker, is the most popular with your customers?

Bull Smoke (Martin): Ranch Hand.  We cater to the blue-collar smokers who are used to the marketing of Winston, Marlboro, and the brands that market with simplicity.  The City Slicker is more geared towards the social smoker or someone who just wants to taste the variety of delicious flavors we offer.

Spinfuel (Julia): That’s about it. Thank you for your patience and time for answering the above questions. I look forward to hearing back from you!

Bull Smoke (Martin): Again, I’m happy to help.  Please let me know if I can provide any further answers.

Pages: 1 2

About The Author

All original content is brought to you by the Spinfuel Staff, or Team Spinfuel, along with select guest contributors. The Staff includes John Manzione, Tom McBride, Julia Hartley-Barnes, Keira Hartley-Barnes, Jason Little, Dori Odosso, Jim Kurz, and Dave Foster.

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17 Comments

  1. Tom Lee

    Hi, I’ve been a customer of Bull Smoke since March 2013. I’m UK based and chose Bull Smoke after googling several electronic cigarette reviews to fins the best fit for me. I was persuaded to order and try Bull Smoke mainly due to their low cost, and strong taste qualities reported in the reviews (ex-Marlboro smoker here). Overall I must admit I am limited in my knowledge of other electronic cigarette brands, with Green Smoke being the only other brand I’ve tried (my mum used this one). But I have to admit I’m more than satisfied with the 3-4 orders I’ve made with Bull Smoke. They have responded to my emails quickly, including a one-off instance where they hadn’t updated my loyalty points balance and apologised and remedied the issue straight away. Deliveries are quick, within 8-10 days, especially considering they come from Florida USA! I love the Turkish and Ranger blends most, but have recently ordered some Coffee and mixed blends to try out that weren’t part of the freebies in the the initial Ranch Hand pack I ordered. Reading your interview – I note that their statements on the website are a ‘tad’ misleading. But in this incredibly flooded market I expect good customer service and fast delivery as a priority. And I get this… EVERY TIME! The product works, tastes good and has stopped me breathing toxic smoke into my system for a while now. The only sad fact will be that thanks to EU legislation coming into force in 2016 I may be forced to look elsewhere if Bull Smoke can no longer ship to the UK. Hate to say this Spinfuel, but as happy customer of Bull Smoke, my experiences of their products and services don’t corroborate your report.

    Tom Lee
    Bull Smoke Consumer
    High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, England

    Reply
  2. MS

    bullsmoke is a rip off site and here’s my experience with them in just the last few months

    This website is a huge scam.. don’t order from them. if you order a kit from them you will probably get it but after you run out of cartridges good luck getting any more from them. which means in the end your e-cig will sit on the shelf. since October i been trying to restock on cartridges and still until today Jan 8th no luck.. customer service has been telling me for the last month or more straight that they will ship my order and yet still no order has been shipped.. they also are liars… they were sold out of cartridges for more than a month straight then sent an email out saying everything is back in stock and GUARANTEED in stocked from here on out and that email was the 17th of December.. so i placed my order on the 18th and guess what my order was CHARGED! and placed on back order without even being told about it (i found out after more then 10 days when i had to call customer service to find out it was placed on back order).. so in one day you guys sold out and you just sent an email saying GUARANTEED in stock the day before? what a joke. i also have been calling customer service everyday and everyday they tell me my order has shipped or it’s getting ready to ship..so what is it? is it shipped or is it being shipped?. then they said it shipped but can’t provide tracking for another couple days.. does that make sense? in the long run BULLSMOKE is full of BULLSH*T! full of liars and all around a very dis-honest and unreliable business. if you want to quit smoking or try an alternative to smoking DO NOT go with Bullsmoke. it will just cause you a headache in the long run. try a different company and stay away from this unreliable website.

    today the 9th of Jan.. i finally had to call and ask for them to refund me my money.. so now i just wait and see if i get refunded. i’ll post back if they refund.

    Reply
    1. Spinfuel Staff

      I hope you’ll keep us posted on this. If we need to we can write about your experience. People should know about companies like this! It’s bad for the entire industry. – Julia

      Reply
      1. MS

        oh yes i will definitely keep you guys posted. if you’d like i could even email you guys the whole story and even fwd the email that they sent out saying everything GUARANTEED back in stock. i didn’t post this in the last post but after they told me my order has shipped and that i had to wait 2 days for tracking#. i never ended up getting the tracking # so i called again and asked them what was going on. i ended up getting someone different at customer service and guess what they told me?? that they never even got in there shipment yet.. so why would they tell me my order shipped and just to wait for tracking..lol WOW! so that’s when i decided it was time to ask them for a refund. i also notice on there facebook page other people are also complaining about there orders and guess what? one of those peoples comments was deleted or removed from the main page. also another facebook complaint was a girl asking why no one is willing to ship her order that she ordered on Dec 21st and another was someone asking Bullsmoke that they want to order from there website but are concerned about the slow shipping they have heard about..well.. bullsmoke responded by saying they don’t have slow shipping and the only time shipping would be slow is if the item ordered was on backorder, but not to worry because they would notify you within 6 days if item was on backorder. well i ordered and DAYS went by waiting for my shipment to arrive until i finally called and then they told me it was backordered. so yeah they never even told me so that is a lie. they just dropped there prices from the kits that were $79 they are now $24 … batteries dropped from $25 each to $15 each and the 5 pack dropped from $100 to $59.. if you ask me i think they are in the middle of being bought out and are trying to get rid of there stock .. something just seems super off with this company. BE AWARE.

        Reply
        1. MS

          ok so here we are now the 14th.. checked my account today and i still have no refund. i called them on thursday to check and make sure they were refunding my account, the lady i talked to told me yes and were still going to ship your order at no charge and that i would have it no later than today. well i checked today and it still hasn’t shipped. so i call them this morning and now the lady says she don’t know what’s going on and that she’ll put a request in with the shipping department. so twice now i been told my order has shipped and both times i was lied too and it still hasn’t shipped and i haven’t been refunded. i told the lady i was getting the run a around and she says no your not it just seems like i am.

          i will continue to update this until this issue is resolved if it ever does.

          Reply
          1. Spinfuel Staff

            We are trying to get some info on this for you. I think they are either selling the company or going under. Either way, its not good. Such a terrible thing about this industry. Let us know if you hear anything, and we will do the same. – Julia

          2. MS

            well i checked my account and yeah FINALLY i see the refund did come through today. i never got my items though (which was supossed to be a x-mas present) but at least i did get the refund. too everyone out there i can’t tell you not to order from bullsmoke but please be very aware if you do customer service flat out lied numerous times too me. i was told more than once my order shipped and it never did. i was told WAY more than once that stock was coming in.. then it would change to stock coming in this week then change to next week over and over since october. also not saying go with V2cigs but i bought my cartridges from them only because i found out my bullsmoke batteries would work with the v2 cartridges. i got my cartridges from v2 yesterday and oddly enough there american red is the same EXACT TASTE as bullsmokes American Ranger and V2 was out first. so does it seem odd that bullsmoke claims there flavors are 80% exclusive? i don’t think so! bullsmoke is basically just a copy cat with a different logo. in my opinion don’t let there prices fool you right now and stay away. also i was still promised they would ship my order too me even with the refund. i will keep you posted to see if they hold up to there side of the deal.

          3. MS

            “They are still looking into my order.” lol

            also i notice they removed the facebook comment you had posted and also removed the comment of the other person saying looks like im not the only one making that claim. right above your post.

  3. Roger R

    I just read the RipOff report you guys posted here. This paragraph really caught my attention after reading the above article

    “A few emails came in from a “Julia” at Spin Fuel, and she had some very elementary questions about the product line that could have been answered if she spent 15 seconds on the website. I felt she was pretty lazy for being an “esteemed reviewer” of electronic cigarette products and quite perhaps brain dead from all the questions anyone with the ability to read could answer themselves. ”

    My JAW dropped when I read that! “elementary questions that could answered is she spend 15 seconds on the website? Really Mr. Giles? My god you are so full of it!

    Now I know for sure that BS, I mean Bull Sh!t, I mean Bull Smoke is full of sh!t. Rock on Julia! We love this magazine, and respect the HELL out of you guys for being straight up with your readers! Screw Bull Smoke! I’m going to spread this ALL OVER THE NET!

    Reply
  4. Grant L.

    As the great late Rodney King said “Can’t we all just get along?” Must be a slow news day if this is actually “news”

    Reply
    1. Roger R

      Now you want “can’t we all get along” after leaving extremely rude and UNINFORMED comments earlier in the day. Sure Grant L, you must work for Bull Shit yourself. I hope they keep at it and run you bunch of crooks out of business!

      Reply
      1. Grant L.

        That’s ridiculous, Roger. Where was I rude and “uninformed?” I think I qualify as one of the most informed having getting the updates on Twitter and following it on G Alerts. Don’t assume things, “Roger.” What the F did I ever do to you, sir?

        Reply
  5. Good job

    I think the company gets themselves into trouble when they make bold claims like “Engineered in America” and “Originator of the 2 piece design” I mean… these are just flat out lies, lies being sold to the public. Kudos to spinfuel for having the balls to post the review even when being THREATENED (because make no mistake, John and Julia were threatened) with mud slinging and other nasty’s.

    That just goes to show you what kind of Company Bull Smoke really is (not an impressive or professional one) and one that is most certainly willing to rip off & lie to it’s customers. They wanted john & julia to lie too, or to otherwise not post the truth. I applaud you both for posting the truth and standing up for it.

    Reply
  6. Grant L.

    Grow up, Julia. You make so many assumptions in your snide remarks – I don’t see those in other “reviews” you post online about other brands. Clearly John’s “war” with Bull Smoke has affected your ability to do an unbiased review. I mean look at your comments under each reply of Martin’s, you just rip them apart in a negative way. It’s easy to do that when you don’t give Martin a forum to defend himself. That’s being a coward in my opinion. Give the guy a chance to speak up instead of using this site to bash a guy who from what I read reached out to discuss this issue but John ducked the calls.

    I used to like reading your site but the more I read your exchanges, the more I want to puke. Was it out of bounds to point out that your child is in jail? Perhaps. If it’s a fact though, it’s a fact. Your a writer, WRITE. Your site was informative and in-depth, now you are just trying to build your name based on a dispute with a brand owner who was trying to make amends with you after you took it to yourself to create bad PR about their brand.

    By the way, I smoke V2 Cigs and think they blow everyone out of the water – so I’m neutral on this topic from a brand loyalty point of view. Just my disclaimer.

    Reply
  7. chris

    I’ve read both the review and the interview. The questions asked were not ones I felt as a reader to have been detrimental to BullSmoke. I’ve asked myself some of the same ones while looking at their web site.

    The Q&A had an atmosphere of clear cut Qs; and A’s that seem to have been answered, with
    What in BS’s mind were clear cut answers.

    At that point, I was on spin fuels side, but in the end the question to us as readers “would you buy from Bullsmoke?. Could have been left off, let us make our own decision.

    Reply
    1. admin

      Hi Chris, thank you for taking the time to comment. As the writer of the review, and the one who developed and posed the questions to Martin Giles of Bull Smoke, I felt the answers indicated someone who could easily skate around the fine lines between “truth” and “lies”. For instance, the website clearly states that Bull Smoke is the “originator” of the 2-piece design, which is clearly not true, and it led me to wonder about what other information on the site is true (much of it has yet to be disclosed). Their admission that the eLiquid is basically off-the-shelf Chinese juice gives me great pause as to whether or not I want to be inhaling these things. Who can forget what the Chinese did with our pet food that killed tens of thousands of American cats and dogs? Bull Smoke leads you believe that it was “their” engineers who are responsible for everything, yet the truth is far different.

      When our editor discovered that Martin Giles was making good on his treats to unleash his entire marketing department on him and spinfuel, by sending him a link to John’s son by previous marriage in jail, we all believed this was Martin Giles miserable and immature attempt to place a horse’s head in John’s bed. He certainly knows nothing about John’s character and willingness to do what he believes is right, if he did he would have never sent the email.

      I believe I have plenty of reason, some of which we have yet to share, to warrant the sentence “Would you buy from Bull Smoke?”. My review was stripped of nearly 100% of my impressions of their product from my “rough draft”, because John felt that Martin Giles obviously couldn’t take the criticism, so I was allowed to give my truncated impression in a single paragraph at the end of the review. As a writer I don’t even think this review qualifies as a “review”. Read some of our other reviews, such as our prosmoke review, this was simply a fact page with one paragraph saying their product was restrictive and expensive. Can you imagine what would have happened if Bull Smoke received a proper review? (Which we may go ahead an publish now)

      Reply

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221, Mount Olimpus, Rheasilvia, Mars,
Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy
+1 (999) 999-99-99
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